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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-24-2013, 01:11 AM Thread Starter
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Why I am about done with MLB

First off some background;

I have been a fan since the time I was 8 and heard my mother and grandmother talking about how the NY Yankees were going to pay a fan to return a ball hit into the stands. I knew a girl named Maris and when I heard this name it confused me but got my attention.

Shortly after, I tuned into WPIX channel 11 in NY. Listening to Mel Allen, Red Barber, Phil Rizzuto and Jerry Coleman, I was hooked for life.

I remember things vividly to this day. I remember Bobby Richardson in October of 1962 like it was yesterday.

I remember my first time in Yankee Stadium (the old, old one) on a Friday night in May of 1963. I remember being in absolute awe that night the moment the subway came above ground and I looked down into the Stadium for the very first time (a very magical moment}. They played the Los Angeles Angels. Joe Pepitone hit two HRs. Clete Boyer was on first base for both of them. The Yankees won 4-3. Jim Bouton got the win. My grandfather scored seats behind home plate. I think they cost 8 bucks.

I remember the names, Ashburn, Coleman, and Hodges...feh! For some reason I just preferred the names, Ford, Kubek and Terry.

I remember learning the names Koufax and Drysdale in 1963 and still remember how I cried for a week that fall. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember November of that year like it was yesterday too. Sure the events that took place then were more important, and very scary. But to a 10 year old Yankee fan, growing up on Long Island, the events of October of that year were just devastating. Good thing there was this British band that came along in the next few months that pretty much allowed everyone to forget about a lot of the bad things from that fall of '63.

I remember the greatest day of my life...in 1964, the day we went on a field trip in school to the World's Fair, and that night when my dad took me to a Yankee game. (My wife reminds me that this was actually the SECOND greatest day of my life).

I remember that Phil Linz played the harmonica.

I remember that one of the great Yankees of all time, their manager in 1964 was fired even though he helped them win the AL pennant. I remember the team hiring the manager of their opposition from the world series that year, thinking that that wasn't a very good idea (it wasn't).

I remember the lean years of the late 60s. i even remember watching Rocky Colavito pitch an inning for the Yankees one time during the year he played for them (was it 1968?).

I remember being very sad the day Mickey Mantle called it quits.

I remember being a Met fan for one season (well everyone in NY was that year) and I remember my friend Danny making a joke that they would put a man on the moon before the Mets ever won a world series (they did and they did).

I remember listing to Phil Rizzuto and Fran Healy arguing over the price of tuna fish in China!

I remember the day a rich businessman purchased the Yankees from CBS and vowed to make them into a winner again (he did).

Well, this is where all the trouble started...

Here is a list of why I am just about done with baseball (well at least Major League Baseball);

1 - It seems that while I as a Yankee fan just loved free agency in the beginning, it really hasn't done much more than create a business totally rooted in making money and damn everything else. $150,000,000 salaries going to .250 hitters? How much were ticket prices before this era? How much are they now? WHAT does it cost to sit behind home plate at Yankee Stadium these days? OMG! How much is a season seat? Isn't it about $10,000 or so? HOLY COW!

2 - The famous union and its CBA. Sorry guys, but as pro union as I am, this has done as much harm to common people being able to enjoy the sport as has free agency. Everything has escalated since the advent of the union that one can BARLEY watch a game on free TV anymore. It's now all about cable, blackouts and money. Some of the greatest players in history made in the neighborhood of $100,000 a year, nowadays, what's the minimum salary in MBL? To do WHAT? To PLAY a game?? And we pay teachers what? About $40,000 a year?

3 - How does anyone, including the retiring worst commissioner in the history of sports justify a continuing ban for the greatest hitter in the history of the game (for gambling, a legal activity), but give a mere 50 game suspension to players who have actually CHEATED by using illegal substances?

4 - How does anyone justify the act of crippling every American League team when they play in a National League stadium? Does the worst commissioner in the history of sports tell the Cardinals that they are not allowed to use Adam Wainwright of Michael Wacha in an American League stadium? No, of course he doesn't but he DOES tell the Red Sox that they cannot use their DH in St. Louis. Well, American League teams are BUILT around the DH. How does one justify this? Baseball needs to rectify this problem for once and for all. Either have a DH or don't have one...both leagues need to play the same game!

5 - How does anyone, including the worst commissioner in the history of sports justify the fact that not only can a team not good enough to win its own division qualify for the world series but also another team not even good enough to finish in SECOND place also qualify? What is this, the NHL??
This wild card idea is idiotic. Why not just let ALLLLLL the teams in MLB participate in the postseason? Just think of the TV revenue that can be generated that way! Good idea, huh Bud?

6 - Now comes instant replay! One of the gifts of major league baseball has been the arguments between umpire and manager. I remember the way Earl Weaver turned his cap around so that he could get right up in an umpire's face to argue a call. It was one of the funniest, most entertaining moments in the history of the game.I remember watching Billy Martin kick dirt over and over again onto the ankles of an umpires arguing a call. I remember watching Lou Pinnella hurl a base in mid air during an argument. Well, gone are most of those moments, only to be replaced by a period of silence as the umpire crew will disappear below the stands to get the ruling by someone who isn't even in the city that the game is played in. What on earth is wrong with a system that relies on human beings making calls and/or mistakes? Who really cares if a mistake is made every so often? It's been part of the game for well over 100 years! If too MANY mistakes are being made, maybe it's time to take a look at how the umpires are being trained???

Well, I can go on, but what's the point. With all the money that is being made these days, I might as well have written this on a wall someplace in remote Siberia.

Good luck in your retirement Bud. We will remember you.

Yankee fan since 1961

Last edited by Jay968; 10-24-2013 at 08:03 AM.
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-25-2013, 02:28 PM
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You're the exact guy i've always hoped would join this forum. I am a very big Mickey Mantle fan. Being only 22 I never got to watch him play but I have watched a lot of footage and read a lot of things about Mantle. I am a Tigers fan, but you gotta respect the Yanks of the 50s and 60s. Although, i'll still say to the day I die that Rocky Colavito and Norm Cash were a better combo in 1961 than Maris and Mantle.

I figured you'd like to see this. I went on baseball-refernce and pulled up the boxscore to the very first game you ever went to. Just in case you wanted to see it

May 17, 1963 Los Angeles Angels at New York Yankees Box Score and Play by Play - Baseball-Reference.com




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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-25-2013, 02:48 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the boxscore. I have actually looked at it many times i still had the scorecard from that game until a few years ago when my dad passed away and my mom and sister sold the house. I live in California now, so it kind've got away from me at the time.
Calavito and Cash vs Mantle and Maris? Not sure about that one. Mantle and Maris had quite a year that year! Have you ever seen the movie '61?' If not, I highly recommend it.
I remember Mantle, in alllll the games I went to, he never hit one out. Oh well. I DO remember the day he hit his 500th off of Denny McLain. He had been struggling to get it and McLain indicated that he was going to groove a fat one for him to hit. Mantle couldn't believe what he was seeing and asked the catcher if he saw what he thought he saw. The catcher (was it Freehan or McAuliff?...I don't remember) told him yes. Mantle proceeded to hit the ball a mile and I think he tipped his cap to Mclain on the way around the bases. I could be wrong on some of this but I do remember watching it all happen on tv at the time. It was 1968 and Denny McLain had a storied year that year. Look it up. He won, what was it, 30 games and the Tigers went on to beat the Cards in the world series that year. I remember rooting for the Tigers but being amazed by Bob Gibson's performance in that series. The Tigers though had McLain and Mickey Lolich though and I still remember a few key hits by Tigers (Jim Northrup I believe was one) that gave them the advantage. I also remember how nice it was to be able to actually root for Al Kaline instead of fearing him
Anyway thanks for the reply.
Btw, though I literally watched many many games that Mantle played in, I did come on the scene in 1961 and therefor actually missed out on the best of his career in the 50s. By the time I came along, Mantle was really a hobbled aging former superstar. He was still my favorite player though.

Yankee fan since 1961

Last edited by Jay968; 10-25-2013 at 03:19 PM.
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-25-2013, 02:56 PM
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I'm telling ya, Cash and Colavtio were better. I'm gonna post some stats for you.


Maris and Mantle: .293/.410/. 653/1.064, 115 home runs, 269 RBIs

Cash and Colavtio: .325/.444/.621/1.065, 86 home runs, 272 RBIs

Those are collective totals of the duo's. All Maris and Mantle had on Cash and Colavito was home runs. That's it!

The game your referring to was in 1968. I think it was September 17th to be exact. Denny McLain knew that it was going to be Mantle's last time ever in Detroit and McLain idolized Mantle. McLain called out Jim Price to tell Mantle that he was going to give him one. The Tigers were already up by a good margin and he wanted to give Mantle a "gift" or something.

The first pitch Denny threw Mantle took it. McLain sat there and looked at Mantle like, "What the hell"? Mick thought they were kidding. McLain threw Mantle another one, and Mick fouled it off. The third pitch Mantle blasted for his 535th home run. His 500th home run came off of Stu Miller.







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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-25-2013, 03:35 PM Thread Starter
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Just did some research to refresh my memory. Mantle's 500 actually came in 1967 in a game against the Orioles. Sorry.
Yes you got the McLain pitch correct! Thanks.

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Last edited by Jay968; 10-25-2013 at 03:38 PM.
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-25-2013, 03:43 PM Thread Starter
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So was Jim Price the third catcher for the Tigers that year? Didn't they still have both Freehan and McAuliff?

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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-25-2013, 03:58 PM
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Jim Price was just the back up to Bill Freehan. Price didn't play that much. He was just catching in the game that Mantle got the gift home run from McLain. McAuliff was also still on the team in 68, too.




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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-25-2013, 05:36 PM Thread Starter
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Have you seen videos of McAuliff's stance? Very unorthodox.

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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-25-2013, 05:48 PM
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Yeah, I have game five on DVD of the 1968 World Series. I also have saw game one as well.




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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-25-2013, 06:49 PM Thread Starter
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Nice that you are so into the history of your team. I have always been that way with the Yankees. I actually remember more about the teams and championships from the 60s than from more recent times. While I suppose NY was magical during the 50s what with the Yankees, Dodgers and Giants during that decade, to me the 60s will always be the golden age. Most of my friends were Met fans so we went to far more Met games than Yankee games. Plus Shea was way more convenient to get to. I had one friend who would literally attend about 50 Met games a year and show up way before the game started so he could stand in the right field porch in Shea and go after batting practice balls. He would end up with dozens of balls a season and would give them to the people manning the concession stands in the stadium. They loved him for it. But of course back then it cost a fraction of what it costs today to get in and I don't see how too many kids would be able to do that theae days. It's a shame.

I took a look at the stats you posted for Calavito and Cash vs Mantle and Maris. Something to consider though is the fact the Mantle was out for several games late in the season, or he might also have pushed the HR record. As a matter of fact, many in NY thought he was going to be the one to do it. No doubt your guys were great ballplayers, but I think Mantle might have been closer to the best of all time had he kept himself in better shape and didn't drink the way he did. Even he admitted to that. What always confused me and still does to this day was the treatment Maris got in the years after he broke that record. I remember how he got booed by the stadium crowds every time he came to the plate. I have heard excuses such as the fans wanted to Mantle to break the record and not Maris, or Maris was just not good with the press during that season (it may actually have been that it was the press that was just not good with HIM). It wasn't until way after he was traded to the Cardinals, and way after he retired, and actually after he died before he got the praise from both the NY media and the NY fans that he deserved. Sad.

Yankee fan since 1961

Last edited by Jay968; 10-25-2013 at 09:49 PM.
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