Ok, Pie is our best outfield defender, Fukudome won 3 GG's in Japan, and how can you say Soriano isnt spectacular? He led the league in OF assist, and he had a Rate2 of 114
Ok, I wont argue that the starting pitching, but the bullpen? We have one of the 3 best bullpens in baseball, have you seen Marmol? He and Wuertz have some nasty sliders. Lilly is better than Gallardo, you cant base it off of half a season and A done of minor league success
Pie has played 80 games in the majors, which isn't a very sizable sample size. His Rate and Rate2 are slightly above league average (104 and 106, respectively). For comparison's sake, Hart's were 117 and 121 and Cameron's were 105 and 106.
Gold Gloves are meaningless. Derek Jeter is a league average shortsop and has three Gold Gloves. Rafael Palmeiro one won at first while only playing 28 games in the field. And, again, you cannot base probable Major League performance off of Japanese League success... very few players have translated significantly well into the MLB.
Soriano was league average in RF, ZR, and FPCT for his position. Only two other LF made more errors than his 6 in 2007.
As for the bullpen: Marmol has had one good season to date... color me skeptical, but I want to see more success before I annoint him as great. Wuertz has been solid for his career - 3.56 ERA, 1.33 WHIP... but he also walks his fair share of batters and gives up a bunch of homers. For comparison's sake:
I know ERA and WHIP are only so useful... but they are good enough for a debate such as this.
Both teams have a middling reliever (Eyre and Torres) behind four solid relievers. There is no significant advantage here.
While I do agree with you that it is in poor judgment to annoint Gallardo as a front-line pitcher right away I would like to point out the same of Ted Lilly. Last season was a career year for him - almost every stat represented a career best. He needs to be viewed with skepticism as well.
My argument, though, is not saying who is the better team. I feel that it is close, possibly with the Cubs having an advantage due to experience and the likelihood of Sheets being hurt again. However, I take umbrage with your refusal to admit that the two teams are very close. The Brewers finished two games back last year - the Cubs improved with Fukudome... the Brewers strengthened their bullpen significantly and should look forward to continued improvement from its young core.
I have no idea what WHIP is, I've never heard of that so kindly clue me in. But I'm a strong believer in ERA, specially when you are looking at a players career or season.
To me ERA is more important the Win/Loss. You can pitch a great game and your team can't score a run but if you lose 1-0, that's the breaks.
__________________
Go Dodgers!
Fan Since 1958
First game, 1958 at age 5
Wally Moon and the Moon Shot
Pie has played 80 games in the majors, which isn't a very sizable sample size. His Rate and Rate2 are slightly above league average (104 and 106, respectively). For comparison's sake, Hart's were 117 and 121 and Cameron's were 105 and 106.
Gold Gloves are meaningless. Derek Jeter is a league average shortsop and has three Gold Gloves. Rafael Palmeiro one won at first while only playing 28 games in the field. And, again, you cannot base probable Major League performance off of Japanese League success... very few players have translated significantly well into the MLB.
Soriano was league average in RF, ZR, and FPCT for his position. Only two other LF made more errors than his 6 in 2007.
As for the bullpen: Marmol has had one good season to date... color me skeptical, but I want to see more success before I annoint him as great. Wuertz has been solid for his career - 3.56 ERA, 1.33 WHIP... but he also walks his fair share of batters and gives up a bunch of homers. For comparison's sake:
I know ERA and WHIP are only so useful... but they are good enough for a debate such as this.
Both teams have a middling reliever (Eyre and Torres) behind four solid relievers. There is no significant advantage here.
While I do agree with you that it is in poor judgment to annoint Gallardo as a front-line pitcher right away I would like to point out the same of Ted Lilly. Last season was a career year for him - almost every stat represented a career best. He needs to be viewed with skepticism as well.
My argument, though, is not saying who is the better team. I feel that it is close, possibly with the Cubs having an advantage due to experience and the likelihood of Sheets being hurt again. However, I take umbrage with your refusal to admit that the two teams are very close. The Brewers finished two games back last year - the Cubs improved with Fukudome... the Brewers strengthened their bullpen significantly and should look forward to continued improvement from its young core.
For defense you can, here how about we bet to see who wins the central, the loser gives the other credits, I dont care how many you want to do, but it is your choice
I have no idea what WHIP is, I've never heard of that so kindly clue me in. But I'm a strong believer in ERA, specially when you are looking at a players career or season.
To me ERA is more important the Win/Loss. You can pitch a great game and your team can't score a run but if you lose 1-0, that's the breaks.
WHIP is walks and hits per inning pitched - it's a good indicator, especially when taken in conjunction with ERA. And I certainly agree with the whole W/L argument - hence my not using wins or losses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fonzie
For defense you can, here how about we bet to see who wins the central, the loser gives the other credits, I dont care how many you want to do, but it is your choice
Both Matsuis were rated as plus defenders in Japan - neither has been very good in the MLB. For outfielders the adjustment is difficult as the parks here are much, much bigger.
Again - I'm not saying the Brewers will win the division. I picked the Cubs in my predictions... I was merely pointing out that the difference between the two teams is much closer than you believe it to be.
WHIP is walks and hits per inning pitched - it's a good indicator, especially when taken in conjunction with ERA. And I certainly agree with the whole W/L argument - hence my not using wins or losses.
Both Matsuis were rated as plus defenders in Japan - neither has been very good in the MLB. For outfielders the adjustment is difficult as the parks here are much, much bigger.
Again - I'm not saying the Brewers will win the division. I picked the Cubs in my predictions... I was merely pointing out that the difference between the two teams is much closer than you believe it to be.
I know it will be close, bacause the Brewers offense will make up for what they lack in defense and pitching
Early 2008 Predictions
Linear Mode
