No outs, runner at 1st base. The batter hits a ground ball to the 1st baseman. The 1st baseman tags the runner (who is still standing on 1st and does not leave the bag), and then he tags first base. The runner was called safe and remained at 1st base and the batter called out.
Shouldn't this be a double-play? I would think that until the batter is called out the runner has to advance to 2nd base, otherwise any potential double-play could be avoided by having the lead runner remain at their base.
No outs, runner at 1st base. The batter hits a ground ball to the 1st baseman. The 1st baseman tags the runner (who is still standing on 1st and does not leave the bag), and then he tags first base. The runner was called safe and remained at 1st base and the batter called out.
Shouldn't this be a double-play? I would think that until the batter is called out the runner has to advance to 2nd base, otherwise any potential double-play could be avoided by having the lead runner remain at their base.
Maybe this is just a little league rule?
this should have been a double play...now if the firstbasemen, tags firstbase first, than the runner wouldnt have to run but otherwise that play would be a double play...im almost 100% sure...
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No outs, runner at 1st base. The batter hits a ground ball to the 1st baseman. The 1st baseman tags the runner (who is still standing on 1st and does not leave the bag), and then he tags first base. The runner was called safe and remained at 1st base and the batter called out.
Shouldn't this be a double-play? I would think that until the batter is called out the runner has to advance to 2nd base, otherwise any potential double-play could be avoided by having the lead runner remain at their base.
Maybe this is just a little league rule?
yes actally this is a double play because the runner munstnt stay at the base he has to run!!!!
The runner is safe. He is occupying a base. Until the batter reaches first base, the force is not yet valid. Once the bag was touched, the runner can not threrfore be forced.The call was correct. You can not call a runner out for being on base unless two are on the same base in there you tag both runners and the preceding runner is out. That is in the rule book. Once the preceding runner is out, the force is null and void.
When the batter puts the ball in play he becomes a runner and any previous runner who was on 1st base is forced to advance. The preceding runner is out when tagged or when the base he is forced to advance to is tagged (in this case 2nd).
If 1st base is tagged before tagging the runner then the batter-runner is out. In this case, since there is no longer a batter-runner then the runner at 1st is no longer forced to advance.
So this is most definitely a double play. The runner is out when tagged and the batter-runner is out when 1st base is tagged before he reaches it.
The runner is not forced UNTIL the bater-runner has acuired the base. Then the fielder can tag either one, but in that mode, the prececing runner is out.
If the runner stays on 1st base, 1st base is touched by the 1st baseman, the batter-runner is out and the runner that should have left from 1st to 2nd is now safe. The force been removed. RULE 7.08(c) a runner is out when...... that runner is tagged, when the ball is alive while off a base, RULE 7.08(e) a runner is out when......failing to raech the next base before a fielder tags said runner or the base after that runner has been, forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner. However, if a following runner is put out on a force play, the force is removed and the runner must be tagged to be put out. The force is removed as soon as the runner touches the base to which the runner is forced to advance, and if over sliding or over running the base, the runer must be tagged to be put out. However, if the forced runner, after touching the next base, retreats for any reason towarrds the base last occupied, the force play is reinstated and the runner can be put out if the defense tags the base which the runner is forced. Not all of this rule will answer you question, but the first part will. All rules that I discuss with anyone that I may write here are word for word from the Little League rule book. If you have any more questions, email me at chiefumpire@senoiaarealittleleague.com
Tell you what, here is the Instructors Manual for Little League. Look at "the runner" starting on page 63.This is section 7.00. This is the ENTIRE rule book with helpful quotes and comments to help elaborate the rules.
The runner is not forced UNTIL the bater-runner has acuired the base. Then the fielder can tag either one, but in that mode, the prececing runner is out.
If the runner stays on 1st base, 1st base is touched by the 1st baseman, the batter-runner is out and the runner that should have left from 1st to 2nd is now safe. The force been removed. RULE 7.08(c) a runner is out when...... that runner is tagged, when the ball is alive while off a base, RULE 7.08(e) a runner is out when......failing to raech the next base before a fielder tags said runner or the base after that runner has been, forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner. However, if a following runner is put out on a force play, the force is removed and the runner must be tagged to be put out. The force is removed as soon as the runner touches the base to which the runner is forced to advance, and if over sliding or over running the base, the runer must be tagged to be put out. However, if the forced runner, after touching the next base, retreats for any reason towarrds the base last occupied, the force play is reinstated and the runner can be put out if the defense tags the base which the runner is forced. Not all of this rule will answer you question, but the first part will. All rules that I discuss with anyone that I may write here are word for word from the Little League rule book. If you have any more questions, email me at chiefumpire@senoiaarealittleleague.com
See Rule 2.00 A Force Play. Tagging the runner who is standing on 1st before tagging 1st base IS a force play. See also 7.01 which says "The runner is entitled to it until put out or forced to vacate it for another runner legally entitled to that base." See next 7.08 (e) which is quoted above. Look at the first part which says "... after that runner has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner.." In this example the batter hit the ball and has become a runner which forces the runner on 1st base to advance.
The runner on 1st is no longer entitled to the base once the batter becomes a runner and is liable to be put out if he is tagged before reaching 2nd base or if 2nd base is tagged before he reaches it. It doesn't matter whether he is standing on 1st base or not. If he is tagged he is out.
Are you and umpire? Do you know and teach the rules? Have you been involved with the rules of baseball for 20+ years? You can not call a runner out for standing on a base!!!
After reviewing the question and confering with my other experts, they all think I have a good arguement. BUT, the also side with you. The part in the rule where it says in purple;
RULE 7.08(e) a runner is out when......failing to reach the next base before a fielder tags said runner or the base after that runner has been, forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner. However, if a following runner is put out on a force play, the force is removed and the runner must be tagged to be put out. The force is removed as soon as the runner touches the base to which the runner is forced to advance, and if over sliding or over running the base, the runer must be tagged to be put out. However, if the forced runner, after touching the next base, retreats for any reason towarrds the base last occupied, the force play is reinstated and the runner can be put out if the defense tags the base which the runner is forced.
This part I missed. My thing was that the runner at 1st base was not forced until the batter runner reached the base and that you can not put out a runner standing on a base. It is hard to get me with a rule but it has been done here. Good one. It was a 30 minute discussion between all of the experts. One to think about.
Rule Question
Rule Question
BUT, the also side with you. The part in the rule where it says in purple;
My thing was that the runner at 1st base was not forced until the batter runner reached the base and that you can not put out a runner standing on a base. It is hard to get me with a rule but it has been done here. Good one.
It was a 30 minute discussion between all of the experts. One to think about.
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