Domenic

Why does an off-year equal a serious decline? He improved every year from 2004 to 2007, and struggled with the White Sox in 2008. When I suggested Griffey was in decline, with better evidence, you would have none of it - this is somewhat hypocritical. Swisher is a good outfielder in every metric and according to most every scouting report, save yours.

Plus, the Yankees gave up essentially nothing for him.

philphan35

That is the onlt thing that is good about this trade. The Yanks gave up next-to-nothing for Swisher.

Domenic

Philphan - if I were to say that Pat Burrell and Ryan Howard were in a steep decline, due to their 2008 seasons, what would you say?

philphan35

I wouldn't say they were in decline. They put up the same numbers. lol. Domenic- What if I said the Dodgers owners were stupid to give Manny the money he wants?

This is a thread not about personal teams but about Nick Swisher.

LJS199330

Domenic, sure Griffey is in decline, the man is 39 years old and has titanium screws all about his body. There are reasons why the A's and White Sox let this much younger player go. You want to know what it is? Just look at his game, it's ugly. He had horrible pitch selection all throughout the season; has an overall horrible approach at the plate, and is far from a plus outfielder anywhere you put the man. For a guy in his prime, he sure didn't look as such.
Besides, to even mention "dirty thirty" in the same breath as Griffey is appauling.

Domenic

Swisher sees the most pitches per plate appearance, and has had one poor season. The A's traded him, because they could not afford him - that is a pattern with the A's. The White Sox were trying to unload him, Dye, or Konerko, to clear out some salary space to go after a pitcher - as Swisher had the best contract, he was the easiest to unload. Every scout on the planet disagrees with you, and so must I. Besides, you said you watched the White Sox after Griffey arrived - and 41 games is not a good sample size of any player.

I said nothing about the 'dirty thirty' for Griffey. I merely pointed out that, if one poor season was enough to write off a player, Griffey should have been given up on a long, long time ago.

I know it's not - that isn't the point, though.

Look at Ryan Howard again. He had the worst AVG, SLG, OPS, OPS+, and fielding numbers of his career. He saw the least pitches per at-bat, and had the second lowest OBP of his career. Look at Pat Burrell's second half stats.

Nick Swisher had a down year, following two very good seasons, and four consecutive seasons of improvement. I am not saying that he is great, nor am I saying that he is better than Teixeira or Dunn, or any other free agent option out there. I am merely stating that he had a down year, and people should have good reason to believe he can bounce back to his established levels. Nothing in his line suggests otherwise - he had a career low in BABIP (batting average on balls in play)... if it had even been league-average (which would be below his career marks), his average would have jumped to .246; if it were his career average, it would have been .261. BABIP is entirely luck-related, and that alone will improve his lot next season.

Oh, and with Ramirez - giving him anything over three years is a waste of years and money. Even the third year will probably be awful - but if he can be like Pedro Martinez for the Mets (bring people over, have a great season or two, put fans in the seats), he could be worth it.

LJS199330

Domenic, I respect your baseball acumen, however I simply do not agree with you in two counts. One being that every scout on the planet believes Swisher is going to rebound. And two that due to the stat of balls per appearance suddenly is an indicator of his plate approach. Just because a person may see plenty of pitches per at bat does in no way indicate that the individual has a good approach at the plate. I've seen the man swing at ball four's over, and over again. I've seen him swing at 2-0 curveballs in the dirt, which is NOT a good approach. Granted, forty one games may not be the best judge, but those plate appearances were horrible. We'll see which one of us correct when the season begins.
As far as "dirty thirty". My point was that to even mention a game as ugly as Swisher's in the same breath as a HOF'er is really unnecessary.

Domenic

Every scout on the planet was obviously an exaggeration, but the point stands that most every scout and scouting organization sees Swisher rebounding this season. I have seen Alex Rodriguez, Ken Griffey Jr., Manny Ramirez, David Ortiz, Chase Utley, Derek Jeter, Grady Sizemore, and countless others swing at 2-0 curveballs in the dirt. That does not reduce their credibility as great ballplayers, and Swisher should not be held in that light, either. He is not a great ballplayer, but his approach has not changed, and, as I stated, his BABIP greatly indicates issues with sheer luck.

You definitely know what you are talking about, and I am not questioning your baseball intelligence in the slightest. I just have difficulty with your evaluation, being based on 41 games, and your characterizing of Swisher's plate mannerisms as anything other than patient.

LJS199330

Well, much like our Griffey debate, only time will decide who is correct.

yankees92395

yea time will tell i personally think nick swisher is ganna have a big year, griffeys not, and who knows about manny